C8 Forum

[cf]

Since Breakcore as a genre seems to be at the verge of "acceptance", it's worth looking back and evaluating some of the history.
A whole new audience has emerged in the last couple of years, that in many cases seems to know very little about the history, ideas and culture. This situation is not helped by the fact that a number of careerist impresarios and label managers are trying to present their version of Breakcore as the "next big thing" in a desperate bid to make it in the spectacle. What events, currents and breaks led us to this point?
Since the very beginning of the 90's producers in the UK used breakbeats rather than the 4/4 kickdrum as the rhythmic backbone of their tracks. In the rapid and stormy developments of the period, both strains developed harder and more experimental versions of their sounds.
A first wave of Breakcore (as it was already called then), primarily influenced by the 'Ardkore sound - sometimes copying, but usually transgressing it, and fused with the energy of the new industrial hardcore sound, emerged with releases from Force Inc./Riot Beats, White Breaks (PCP) and Pod, all Frankfurt-based labels, and DHR (based in Berlin and London) radicalising the new sounds coming from England.
A second wave may read like a response from South London, but from a new generation: The first Ambush, all releases on Amputate, Praxis 21, 24, 27... this was the early beginnings of the Hekate sound system, and Hecate launched Zhark London (later Zhark International). Strong relations also existed with Audio Illusion and the Spiral Tribe hardcore renegades from Stormcore, forming a "sub-net" for independent distribution. The aim was to bypass the traditional channels not only of distribution, but also of all other mechanisms of the culture industry.
Everybody involved at this point was to a greater or lesser degree linked to the underground sound system culture, with a clear memory of the earlier rave scene and its adventurous spirit, and everybody was deeply dissatisfied with the way the whole of techno and rave culture on the one hand, as well as its underground antagonist, the free party scene, on the other hand were going. While there was a consensus that the free party scene remained a form that was antagonistic, it seemed to have given up this position in most of its content, creating or succumbing to its own star systems and commercial mechanisms pushing the music itself into the background, at least as far as this music was trying to be innovative and radical.
Whether or not the free party scene was realistically a base for a cultural change by this point (I'm fast forwarding to the late 90's), the potential it still held was soon eroded by the extreme wave of repression that the scene saw itself faced with on the European continent as well as in North America, following the introduction of the 1994 Criminal Justice Act in the U.K. (which ironically spawned some of the developments on the continent as it forced British sound systems into exile). Another chapter of history that also still needs to be written.

Breakcore was then a hybrid strategy rather than a style or genre. It drew its influences and sources from industrial hardcore, jungle/drum'n'bass and everything in between and neighbouring it, engaging in an alchemy of sounds, pillaging the rave culture and sharpening, radicalizing and intensifying it.
These ideas were spreading across the world: In France particular styles of Hardcore and Hardtek were developing. The Sound of Rome formulated a different creative vision. Some of the most talented producers soon came from North America, such as Venetian Snares and Abelcain, and the spectrum was expanded from dark electro to hyper-edited breaks that questioned the relationship between the sound and the dancefloor. The virus was finding hosts in places as far as Brazil, Australia and Japan.

The Millennium turned out to be a time of change after all. Illegal parties and teknivals - something we had hoped could or would become the nucleus of a new counter culture - were attacked and destroyed in most of Europe and North America, a fact that has had little exposure, let alone critical reflection, in the media. Thus the social base and actual outlets of the "sub-net" were eroding, but what remained was a musically and energetically strong output by an increasing number of artists and labels. The sub-net idea had inspired a new generation as had the releases of many of the older artists.
Some talented new artists without the background of the older producers appeared on the scene, without having to experience the precarious situation of their predecessors.
On the other hand artists appeared who got their breaks only from other breakcore records, and their reference points from the charts, R'n'B, the mainstream. Thus the once generally critical and politically and culturally radical attitude of the scene was increasingly diluted.

Breakcore has become a style/genre although still not a major one. Most record shops still don't have a Breakcore section (Rough Trade - how cute - still call theirs "Digital Hardcore"). This situation has some consequences. A minor one is that crisis-hit hardcore-labels like Audiogenic (the parent company of Psychik Genocide and Neurotoxic) have tried to start a "breakcore" label.
But much worse is the development of labels and media from a completely different corner, when the so-called "IDM" or Electronica scene started getting involved, as their own scene started dying from boredom.
One has to remember that a first wave of so-called "intelligent techno" had been constructed to counter the proletarian onslaught of early rave music in the early 90's, a distinctly bourgeois response to the hard sounds emerging from the underground. All things "hardcore" were soon vilified in the music and style press, while a phantom of supposedly "intelligent" music was created, which always struck me personally as music that was actually particularly stupid (remember those wooly synths?).

If we look at the situation in 2005 it might seem as though essential parts of the history outline above never existed. Breakcore seems to consist, on the one hand, of Ragga-Jungle that refers to the same sub-style 10 years ago, which is fine but hardly innovative. Picked up by white producers (the original ragga jungle scene was a predominantly black proletarian sub-scene of Jungle and was almost completely ignored or vilified by the white middle class dominated music media), Ragga Jungle is finally "acceptable", when they are sampling black MC's and, at its worst, extreme homophobic hate music - probably the darkest political moments of Breakcore so far.
On the other end of the spectrum we find the mixture of "IDM" and Breakcore as it manifests itself in an increasing number of releases on labels like Planet Mu, Schematic, Rephlex, Tigerbeat6 and many other sad labels that wanna-be like them, plus some overdriven pop-sampling stuff.
Again this has different aspects - of course Planet Mu has signed Venetian Snares (and Bizzy B), Rephlex put out a DJ Scud compilation, which is still fine, as at least it reflects some of the developments there have been in the underground scene in the previous years.

Obviously the traditional "IDM" scene was in a crisis, as was the music industry in general, looking for some way out. The only new developments are breakcore and grime, maybe with an occasional wink towards gabber.
Now I'm not intending to create a dubious distinction between "authentic" and "parasitic" labels or anything of the kind. But there is a difference between self-organisation and talent-scouting (and exploiting). Does that mean the worst self-published breaks are still better than anything on Planet Mu? Probably not, no (nice idea though).

However the current scene is dominated by a newer sound, that owes a very superficial and actually mistaken influence to Snares (a lot of hyper-editing that turns out to be messy in contrast to Snares' polished and accomplished work) and none to Scud (the "new" sound is also characterized by an almost complete inability to rock the dance-floor).
A particularly vocal exponent of this "new" breakcore sound is Jason Forrest, who runs a label called "Cock Rock Disco", and who in his internet forum said: "I like how breakcore is - on the whole - more fun and less serious than previous hardcore versions. I think this matters a lot, especially when we talk about this music growing in numbers." One can choose between two interpretations of this remarkable sentence: Either he doesn't know or care about the history of the music (or ever heard of gabber before, a style that was "more fun and less serious" to a degree that will be hard to beat - just think of Smash!), or it's his mission to free his version of "Breakcore" of content, darkness, and its critical potential in order to stand a chance in the "spectacle". Or both.

There has been a double regression.
There's the regression towards the concept of the "great artist", which is essentially the bourgeois concept of art applied to a specialized segment of popular culture, which is mediated through the press and other institutions of cultural control. This type of artist is one who has no critical, let alone antagonistic relation to the culture industry, and further bemoans his insignificant part in the mechanism of serious culture.
One symptom for this is that it has clearly become harder to sell records of new and unknown artists (a distinction that hardly played a role in the early days of acid and rave), while others have successfully managed to "make a name for themselves". Again this doesn't mean at least some of these artists don't deserve the respect they worked hard for. On the contrary - they deserve much more than they command at this time, at least those following their vision without compromise. But if they allow themselves to get locked into a spectacular dreamworld, they will be condemned to live a marginal existence, seeking attention from a shifting target audience, hoping for the numbers to grow...

From this follows a regression of content and direction.
For some reason Breakcore is politically still regarded by many people to be somehow left wing, but if you look at it closer, the labels with an explicit position are in an extreme minority. However, my argument is not that music should be agit-prop, but that labels with a consistent aesthetic (and I don't mean design!), a real depth of content, a commitment to experimentation and development are rare these days. This seems to suggest that the label as an art form is in a crisis as well.
If we look around, we see a number of artists doing the rounds on a number of labels, releasing here and there, and no one is prepared to commit themselves. This leads to a situation where the labels are indeed just distinguished by design, chasing the "hot new" artist that they think will be the "next big thing", while the artists are running after the next deal, adding another label to their portfolio. Thus it comes as no surprise that so much mainstream pop is sampled these days - what is supposed to be ironic is essentially affirmative towards the music industry. It's a desperate bid for acceptance, for commercial "success".

This is of course what Praxis has always tried to counter with an antagonistic cultural struggle and a fundamental critique of the conditions of cultural production. We always were and are still looking for allies in this adventure and call on all artists, producers, sound systems, labels, DJ's, to position themselves and stand up against the mediocracy, the careerism and opportunism that has been manifesting itself in the scene in the last few years.

[element abuse]

It's good to see that there must be other folk who feel the same way. Especially about labels' content and consistency, and the 'irony' of what is basically diced and processed happy hardcore - which, considering that IDM folk have taken this kind of music aboard so readily, seems to me to be the equivalent of middle class folk 'slumming it' in rough pubs 'for the banter'.

[piper23alpha]

big up metatron..... stay down with the hardcore

at the risk of sounding sycophantic, you have put very articulately what i and others have been thinking and saying for quite some time.

i'm sure you will be reprimanded for pointing the finger at specific people in "the scene(?)" but you are so right, cock rock disco put your dick away and stop wanking.

i can see evidence of what you are saying all around me in london, berlin and elsewhere.
in london, club bangface is making money presenting its vision of "neo-rave" to trendy clubbers (a lot of them having day jobs in media, i bet). as someone who is, despite the despicable opportunist criminality and commercialism which pluages the squatrave scene in london, still entusiastically involved in underground raves i find the term "neo-rave" vaugely insulting. sure, the term became unfashionable a long time ago hence but their use is almost like "rave is dead, long live clubbing". by the way, the club kicks people out at 2am. thats no rave! they are starting to put on breakcore artists now, because it is fashionable to do so.

also, last time i was in berlin one of the guys in neurotitan (record/art/bookshop) told me about the dtl/end gig. i was a little interested to fing out more, since we had been planning to go to the schlagstrom party in raw-tempel, an autonomous nonprofit venue. so i asked the guy and he confirmed that the gig was at maria am ostbhanhof, which is a "proper" club. when i asked about the schlagstrom party he was all like "i don't know about this kind of party" and seemed to look down his nose at me... (no doubt judging by the amount of more "industrial" music on sale in the shop, another of the staff working on a different day might have been able to tell me). {by the way the schlagstrom party rocked but thats another story}
now, i know the wasted festivals are held in this venue (no offence to cf and a handful of other respectable artists who played) also and i know the beer is very overpriced. i know also that there are less nonprofit venues in berlin than there used to be BUT COME ON..... i think this proves my thesis that these days, breakcore is more at home in the clean, sterile fashionable world of the club proper. also, this is a matter of taste but the idea of a "pure" breakcore fest somehow leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. it's ironic that a style which was born of a deliberate disregarde for rigid genre boundaries (tekno, dnb etc) and an uncompromising underground mentality now has, so to speak, its own little self-congratulatory clique.

hence perhaps the lack of reaction on this forum to the authoritarian actions at czektek and elsewhere....

fuck breakcore in 2005, straight up.
in the words of william s burroughs.... BREAK .. IT .. ALL .. DOWN !

[stevvi]

CF,

Once again, you put into words exactly what I've been thinking. It's a shame you didn't write the piece a few years ago (or perhaps you did and it's been the usual delay to press ;) It brings to mind the "state of the scene" in '96 (give or take year... my memory is terrible) when "hardocre" went up it's own arse and everyone was bored with everything until...

Nice one.

K.
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Dark. sick music
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[LFO DEMON]

Dear reader,
in the following text I will give some reasons why a "underground vs mainstream" dichotomy can´t be the proper answer on Cf´s text.

I don´t think that the text of Cf is about the myth underground=squats, dirty sound, d.i.y., cheap = good while mainstream=music industry, posh sound, high prices=bad but about the history and evolution of the sound.

I also don´t think the problem is caused by people with the wrong attitude, coming and selling out the sound. I´m wondering how D.I.Y. musicians pay their rent and get food into their fridge. To be honest: I also prefer that musicians can make a living of their music instead of being on the dole. There is nothing wrong about the DIY aproach - but if it doesn´t reflect the material basis - fuck it (PS: I always have laugh when people on the flea market sell their self-printed shirts with "anti-capitalist" printings). You can´t drop out of capitalism and DIY is often a synonym for self-exploitation. People work for free because it is for "a good thing". That might be nice gesture but catholic church does the same; so this has nothing to do with a subversive practice or resistance or anything but is simply a non-understanding of the basic principles of capitalism. And it´s pretty close to some religious/ morally principles, trying to search for the ethically right way of living. As Adorno put it, there is "no right life in the wrong one" (Note: I found several translations for this quote of "Minima Moralia", hope this is the correct one).
And in this case a community defining itself as a scene will start up a witchhunt: who are the sell outs? Burn them at the stake. Actually the truth might be a bit more difficult then blaming the status of Breakcore these days on single individuals / labels.

The left discourse on Pop reflected these issues so there have been publications like Holert/Terkessidis "Mainstream der Minderheiten" (Mainstream of minorities) or the text "from substream to mainculture" from the editors of 17Grad magazine: Even the differentation between "underground" and "mainstream" is shady. Today the underground myth is a marketing tool used by record companies, small and huge ones, to sell their stuff. This is the search for authenticity- but has nothing to do with Subversion. As the authors of "from substream..." put it: "There is no CULTURAL opposition against the cultural industry, which isn´t part of the cultural industry any more."


So referring to the post of piper23alpha that means: you can have it of course quite simple: good vs evil. On the bad side there are evil sell out corporate high prices clubbing posh yuppiescum. And on the good side, everything which looks alternative. Like RAW temple, which in fact has nothing to do with a "autonomous center" or something but is a commercial place which charges shitloads of rent when you want to set up an event over there.

So, piper23alpha, your Berlin story doesn´t prove your point. I also don´t care for the "Schlagstrom" parties - I have heard vaguely that they exist but didn´t think of going there yet. And I guess so doesn´t Mr. Stilgar from Society Suckers who you talked to in Neurotitan. Or do I have to hang around at each "underground" party to be "in the scene" just to prove how authentic I am?

I´m also wondering why Wasted should be in a "alternative" venue (I still don´t buy this term). This festival isn´t a political one nor pretended to be "non-commercial" or "underground" or whatever. So why should it be in a "alternative" venue? To "be more authentic"? They never said they wanted to exploit themselves and others to be as cheap as possible. A couple of guys I know made an industrial/ breakcore festival 3 years ago in Berlin.
They ended up with 10.000 Euros depts (splitted on 2 persons) and people complained about the "high entrance" before - with 12 Euros per day.
As an artist I appreciate getting payed once in a while so I can afford to play the majority of gigs where I find myself losing money at the end.

Oh, and I think the Czech-tek agitation is pure bigotry. The existence of the police means violence every day. Migrants get discriminated against and deported each day and nobody cares. But when a bunch of white middle-class kids gets fucked by the police (gosh- what do you think is the purpose of the police? Being nice to people? Making the world a paradise?) some people start going nuts. And as I have seen the reactions so far they don´t lead to a real critique but stay at a particular interest: "hey, just don´t beat US". I don´t say people shouldn´t be enraged about police brutality, I say they should enrage even more - about general injustices and not particular ones.

I think that the Czechtek thing proves that the freetek scene is no more base for "antagonistic cultural struggle and a fundamental critique of the conditions of cultural production" as Cf put it. Similar to the "Reclaim the Streets" idea, which was refreshing in the 90s, A) the state learned to react on it and B) the whole thing became routine and boring party business. Just looking for the next trend to join can´t be the answer. This can only be a starting point on the quest for something new. But we´re finally on the way. Time to bring the politics back.

Yours sincerly, lfo

More rumble ahead: http://www.lfodemon.com/texts/beertent.htm
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Roots - Rock - Raver.

[Fboy]

[stevvi]

[Fboy]

small steps, small steps, there's a huge discrepancy between elvis and the doors and in turn fantomas. but it was simply reiterations of that same three piece guitar/bass/drums paradigm that gave us all three. similarly with industrial hardcore, while you can perhaps draw a line between it and breakcore there was definitly a period (one which still hasn't ended if you ask doormouse or maladroit ) where there was a mix of four to the floor and breaks (not that hardcore didn't employ breaks before breakcore, or that breakcore doesn't use four to the floors now, again see doormouse and maladroit)... stuff like saoulaterre springs to mind. there are precious few occasions anywhere in history where humanity has changed enough for a completely revolutionary way of thinking, the enlightenment was one, probably the latest in music was electronics. I think most progression occurs on a much more subtle level.

I would definitley agree that nursery rhymes and britney lead to greater things, it would be far worse for someone to have no taste in music than a bad taste, im not ashamed to admit that I had a pretty shocking taste in music myself when I was younger (here's johnny sounded pretty fucking cool when you were ten) but its interesting to see how that taste logically progressed from pop-punk to hip hop to drum and bass to breakcore, and I think I can appreciate a far wider array of music because of it

[Adverse_Solutions]

Just like to say that I agree with a lot of what LFO's saying here though I'm not sure how much it actually had to do with what piper was saying...

To Fboy...

[Fboy]

I understand that breakcore is meant to be radical as an artform as much (moreso) than a political statement, however my point still stands, as more people come to appreciate its uniqueness, as more people seek to recreate it (copying is a necessary evil IMO, how else can ideas be transmitted? should we all still be listening to the same 10 artists who 'invented' breakcore) its radicalism appears to be diluted, which in fact it has, because more people have taken up its call, I refuse to see this as a bad thing, to make an analogy, what if civil rights for minorities remained a 'radical' idea? would we be living in a very nice society? I think not.

as for ragga and pop mash, I think maybe I did misinterpret what cf said as ragga=bad instead of ragga=not innovative, but I don't think that is to say that enduser and peace-off are not innovative, nor that toecutter or rank sinatra are not talented. there will always be schlock in any genre of music, and perhaps pop mashs and ragga samples are a crutch of this schlock. thats not to say that nothing good or innovative can come of it. we've been using the same funk breaks for decades now and they still show no sign of getting stale despite many who've predicted the 'fall of genre x'. the same rules of music apply to breakcore that apply to classical and medievel music. There are a lot of talented musicians out there, there are very few geniuses, this is not a reflection of the incompetence of most musicians, but a reflection on the talent of those who can find something truly new from these thousand year old rules, and educate the rest of us 'mere musicians' so that we can recreate it.


perhaps my understanding of breakcore from an australian perspective is somwhat skewed, I continue to see huge amounts of innovation coming from the producers I know, perhaps this is not the case in europe and CFs comments are more valid than I take them for. but i think, while many of his points are valid and should be acknowledged, I think the way to deal with them doesn't come from a societal level, each person as an individual has to decide whether they are comfortable with where breakcore is now and where it is going, if commercialization becomes a problem, each of us as an individual will decide whether we want to sell out or move on.

[geroyche]

you're still missing cf's bigger concern with ragga-jungle fboy.
it's not so much to his dislike that it's not innovative rather than that
the whole dancehall culture transports values such as machoism and homophobia.
certain raggajungle samples such phrases excessively (x-13 for example) but some people make the claim that any dancehall, with all the badman-talk,
implicates that message.
dunno if there's a discussion about that in the depths of this forum or if the c8 mailing list (or was it p1) archives are still existant...

[stevvi]

[Fboy]

im not sure whether its a particularly valid point though, I am somewhat ignorant of what the situation in kingston was like then and now, however I am aware of what batty bwoy, bloodclaat etc. mean, and while they are macho and homophobic, I don't know whether sampling them in this context means that they still have to be interpreted as such, I seriously doubt there are any homophobes in the breakcore community at all, certainly a very very small minority.

also, think about passenger of shit (or worse suicidal rap orgy or diablo negro), they have violent, sexist stupidly macho lyrics, but I don't think anyone seriously believes they advocate these things (SRO and Diablo Negro also have female vocalists), I think the case is similar with ragga.

[geroyche]

i just checked...p2 actually

thread called Necro Accapellas
essentially a discussion about what is transported in samples.
anyway i think if anybody, not me i don't, feels like discussing this yet again a new thread would be appropriate.
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Secretly plotting to kill the U.S. president since June 1979.

[walterkarlo]

i won't so much reply extensively, which i actually wanted, but just to clear up one thing. : )
i'm the guy in neurotitan and i was playing the dtl/end party in zentrale randlage that night, which is why i of course tried to wildly invite as many people there, the organisers of that night present a wider range of things and this was the first night one of their more extreme nights actually drew an audience that made it a "real" party. they too operate on their own risk and try to present "weird" music for a long time so they have my back.

as for the schlagstrom party, i had only heard of one of their parties before and haven't heard again from them since.

i also don't want to bore you with an elaborate overview on freeparty venues and clubs in berlin, but it is still possible to go to freeparties (if they have somewhat interesting music playing). unfortunately, several regular venues that operated on that level have been shut down in a wave of closings last year, which regretfully resulted in a void.
there are very small places now, that people seek up,
hekate soundsystem used a gallery space for three days, but hardly saw attendance, their closing party was a good example though, of how things can work. those are little things that count i think.

as for the maria and wasted/sellout issue, i share lfodemons opinion and i think it's amazing what JF and pure put together there. it's unthinkable and i can only count the times something like this happened in the last 6 years on one hand, and i still could if the yakuza were after me.

that aside
i miss datacide,
i miss my old friends being together all in one place,
i miss serious arguments face to face with people that are up to it,
i miss people being lovely just because (they took e, but i never noticed)
i miss integrity and quality control, who's to tell me whether my music is worth anything.

i don't miss having to pay for my travel and not getting anything,
i don't miss being shat on because my music is fucking annoying even
though i got invited and just bled my fucking heart out,
i don't miss my favourite music being shat on,
i don't miss having to get along with ignoramus drumandbass/retroelectro/whatevergenre knowitalls elitist idiots,
i don't miss knowing that i'm one of probably 25 people that like this music,
i don't miss having 3 djs that all play only the latest ambush/praxis/dhr shit, 5 years of just that is well enough for me.

don't know if thats all, i'm drifting away, feel free to brutalize me for whatever.
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